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Post by ikabod on Apr 19, 2006 12:45:06 GMT 8
and we're all victims of their wrath, right? ;D
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beni
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Post by beni on Apr 19, 2006 15:11:41 GMT 8
No matter how I look at them, Kunio Okawara's MS designs (including redesigns and cleanup designs) from MS Gundam: OYW to Seed Destiny look like crap.
Good thing Bandai hired much more talented mecha designers.
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mechapinoyboy
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Post by mechapinoyboy on Apr 19, 2006 21:30:34 GMT 8
No matter how I look at them, Kunio Okawara's MS designs (including redesigns and cleanup designs) from MS Gundam: OYW to Seed Destiny look like crap. Good thing Bandai hired much more talented mecha designers. The Strike actually looks more like the Gundam X; it seems that Gundam X is where many of the designs were taken from. The Zaku Warrior, however, seems to be a mix of Zaku, Marasai and Geara Doga details. As for Okawara...yes, he's bad on lineart - but my contention is, the moment the lineart gets animated or turned into kits, a lot of them are d**n good. Let's give him credit for that.
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Post by delta408 on Apr 19, 2006 21:53:22 GMT 8
i'd have to agree with Okawara's line art. my favorite mecha designer is Hajime Katoki.
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beni
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Post by beni on Apr 19, 2006 22:44:37 GMT 8
I'd credit Okawara for his creativity for the original series. Zakus looked so good in their most simple form. IMO, animations looked better but definitely not good. Animation in MSG didn't do it for me in the aesthetics department. Even CG didn't saved Seed from the Crapowara madness. Seed would still be looking horrendous if Bandai released merchandise using the original BEECRAFT linearts (e.g. PG Strike, Astray). If it wasn't for Katoki, gunpla merchandise would never progress the way it is now. Producing a CAD model from his designs was definitely easier than it was w/o him. HG, HGUC (now handled by BEECRAFT), MG and GFFs are evident from his work. I think it would be better if he did the principal design then the other designers did the cleanup. Not the other way around. my 2 cents...
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mechapinoyboy
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Post by mechapinoyboy on Apr 22, 2006 12:43:49 GMT 8
I agree that Katoki is very important...but the one who made the book on gundam designs is Okawara. and Katoki, though very good, can also get boring. Check out okawara's resume:
Gatchaman Most of Gundam Zambot Votoms Vifam Dougram Xabungle ExKaiser Da Garn Mightgaine J-Decker Goldran Dagwon Reideen GaoGaiGar Gravion
if anything, it's possible that he's being ordered to come up with designs based on older gundam designs.
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beni
DX Gashapon Super Robot
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Post by beni on Apr 22, 2006 21:42:39 GMT 8
I think we better stick to the topic... that is Gundams. I'm not just referring to Katoki because we know that Gundam didn't attracted it's current fanbase because of ideas of one or two mecha designers. Several others aside from Katoki and Okawara include: Kazumi Fujita Mamoru Nagano Kazuhisa Kondo Makoto Kobayashi Mika Akitaka Yutaka Izubuchi Shoji Kawamori Moriki Yasuhiro Junichi Akutsu Syd Mead, just to name some... Without them, there won't be fantastic designs like Z Gundam, Hyaku Shiki, ZZ, GP01&GP02, Nu, Red/Blue Astray, Turn X and several other famous MS/MSVs. Without them, we would still be stuck with Okawara's basic gundam design up until now. There won't be any maturity. Okawara's great at creating simplistic designs but the franchise had already evolved from looking like flimsy kiddy super robot cartoons to complex appearing mecha. His various redesigns and designs of MS from Seed Destiny show how nostalgic Okawara was feeling when making them.Yes, he breathed life unto Tomino's vision of gundam but he's not responsible for attracting most of the fans (including me).
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Post by no3Ljm on Apr 23, 2006 4:30:00 GMT 8
hey guys. makiki-join lang ako dito... ang mga napanood ko lang na Gundam Series are: Mobile Suit Gundam 0079 (One Year War) Mobile Suit Z Gundam Mobile Suit Gundam: Char's Counterattack Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destinypart of some series here are reboot and recycled of the original series. yup, i do agree sa mga post ninyo dito. pati yung mga age nang pilot. at kung bakit laging nananalo ang mga batang piloto. syempre gusto ko din makakita nang Gundam series na TACTICs ang dating. yung tipong ipapakita nila sa yo ang strategy kung paano nila papabagsakin ang isang kalaban o mothership. not just shoot & destroy. yung tipong maraming teamwork na mangyayari. for example, ilu-lure nang isang MS ang kalabang MS, tapos, may nag-aabang na ibang MS, na may nag-aabang din na kalabang MS, and so on and so forth. kumbaga sa giyera, may TACTICs dapat. i heard before na may lumabas na Gundam TV Movie na live action-3D. it's called G-Savior. may nakapanood na ba sa inyo nito? any news or storyline about this one? di ko pa kasi napapanood ito. i doubt na may batang pilot sa movie na ito.
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beni
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Post by beni on Apr 23, 2006 10:01:09 GMT 8
08th MS team? I heard it's a b-movie with gundams.
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mechapinoyboy
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Post by mechapinoyboy on Apr 23, 2006 10:46:13 GMT 8
Okawara's great at creating simplistic designs but the franchise had already evolved from looking like flimsy kiddy super robot cartoons to complex appearing mecha. His various redesigns and designs of MS from Seed Destiny show how nostalgic Okawara was feeling when making them.Yes, he breathed life unto Tomino's vision of gundam but he's not responsible for attracting most of the fans (including me). I agree, he is simplistic, and he is not the big draw he used to be...but i wouldn't call his designs simplistic. simplistic is mazinger Z. the new artists, they have great detail and geometric form, whereas okawara's is more fluid. My point of debate is that okawara lineart sucks; but once animated or turned to kit form, more often than not, it looks d**n good. and without his vision, gundam would be quite different today, possibly being the star wars rip-off it had the potential to be. Tomino may have been the heart, but okawara was the one who fleshed out the robots.
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beni
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Post by beni on Apr 23, 2006 14:06:16 GMT 8
Yes, I think his designs in MSG and Z are simplistic compared to Kobayashi's, Akitaka's or even Fujita's.
I disagree on the animation and kit part. IMO, I'll take Katoki's and Izubuchi's MS animations over Okawara any day. It all comes to this... Different people have different tastes.
I agree. But with Bandai's current roster of young and potential mecha designers, he is better off supervising than conjuring up with his own designs. Seed and Seed Destiny showcased how well Junichi Akutsu design better mechs than Kunio Okawara. That series is evident of Okawara's diminishing talent for thinking up new ideas.
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mechapinoyboy
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Post by mechapinoyboy on Apr 23, 2006 20:54:41 GMT 8
1) Yes, I think his designs in MSG and Z are simplistic compared to Kobayashi's, Akitaka's or even Fujita's. 2) I disagree on the animation and kit part. IMO, I'll take Katoki's and Izubuchi's MS animations over Okawara any day. It all comes to this... Different people have different tastes. 3) I agree. But with Bandai's current roster of young and potential mecha designers, he is better off supervising than conjuring up with his own designs. Seed and Seed Destiny showcased how well Junichi Akutsu design better mechs than Kunio Okawara. That series is evident of Okawara's diminishing talent for thinking up new ideas. 1) Agreed there. As I said, the newer guys have more detail and geometry. 2) I'll agree with the different tastes part. 3) On this one, I have no argument on the point of him being relegated to supervision - after all, younger people have the benefit of having a younger viewpoint and style, not as "classic" as okawara's. But diminishing talent? I think the problem here is that he's being asked to do something over and over again - and since he's getting good money anyway, he won't screw around with a tried and tested idea. But I say this with his whole body of work in perspective. If we are to limit the argument to simply being Okawara's interpretations of the basic Gundam design, then yes, he's pretty much mined out his own designs - and like many an older artist, has revisited his own themes. here's a good one: www.gearsonline.net/designers/#okawaraOkawara Kunio Credits: Daitarn 3, Mobile Suit Gundam, Z Gundam, Gundam ZZ, Gundam F91, V Gundam, G Gundam, Gundam Wing, Gundam Wing Endless Waltz, Gundam X, G-Saviour, Turn A Gundam, 08th MS Team, Gundam SEED, Round Vernian Vifam, SPT Layzner, Metal Armor Dragonar, Fang of the Sun Dougram, Armored Trooper Votoms, Brave King Gaogaigar, Xabungle, Zambot 3, Legendary Giant Ideon, Betterman
Okawara has a list of credits that is impressive by anyone's standards. He designed all of the mecha from the 1978 TV series Mobile Suit Gundam. Many consider him to be the grandfather of "realistic" mecha (as opposed to the super robots of the 70's). Okawara stays active today contributing designs to most of the new Gundam series and many other mecha shows as well.
Okawara has been in the business for so long that his work has inspired many mecha designers who came after him. As a result, his design style is difficult to define. It would be better to say it is the "basic style" that most of today's designers are variants of.
Famous Designs: RX-78-2 Gundam, MS-06F Zaku IIBut yes, I agree with you, that he shouldbe just supervising the next generation - but i wouldn't say diminishing talent.
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Post by archaznable on Apr 23, 2006 21:36:03 GMT 8
I do really love the simplistic design of the RX-78-2 Gundam it gives you the feeling of classic design at its finest. But before the designers let us thank Mr. Tomino for his great and wonderful work on Gundam. Without him there would be no Gundam for us. No model kits of Gundam for us and no debate on Gundam for us .... I have heard of the G-Savior movie but many would say the G-Savior is a rip off live movie of Gundam.
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beni
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Post by beni on Apr 24, 2006 1:15:37 GMT 8
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mechapinoyboy
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Post by mechapinoyboy on Apr 24, 2006 1:52:26 GMT 8
1) Couldn't agree more. Reminds me of... cough *Bandai'* cough 2) He could've introduced new enemy MS instead from using his old designs(Zakus, Goufs and DOMs). He did it with the previous series (F91, V), Seed Destiny isn't that different. If he's refurbishing his classic designs in SD to pay homage to OYW, atleast resurrect Acguy in SEED form. 3) 1) Well, they are a company that has to profit. Gundam is great, since it is so easily recognizable in both design of the mecha and the storyline...so they just rehash it every now and then. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it isn't, and sometimes you get G Gundam, hehe. 2) I do believe that in the case of the mecha, okawara was not the one who had the final say. It was the director, and he basically looked over the past gundam shows...and pointed out the mecha that he wanted to be "redesigned" for SEED. So okawara did exactly that. That's why Seed has derivative mecha. heck, the strike itself is derived from the Gundam X, and the Freedom from Gundam XX. 3) I agree about Tomino. Such sheer genius - though seriously, in his case, he really should make up his mind about liking or hating gundam - or at least admit, finally, that he probably hates most gundam shows that he didn't make, LOL.
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